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Wednesday, January 13, 2010

Problems and in Hideaway?

This blog space is being given to a lot owner, Gary Francis, becasue he wants to express himself and felt that the "comments" section on the member to Member site was too restricting. He has some good points and strong feelings about his opinions.

As a new owner I see a lot of issues that really worry me. Proxies from my reading was not designed for 1 to vote for many but to allow a attorney to vote for you. Also I understand some want these dues adjusted because they do not get the same services as some I have written a letter to the board and yet to receive a answer. In my understanding I am responsible for water, sewer and utilities. We all have access to garbage and the roads that are safe to clear are. Then I also hear it's because a lot of the lots are only used as recreation. Who is going to decide who pays what how much you use your property is your choice. I think if everyone payed we could all pay less. Gary Francis #C352


  1. Dear Gary,

    Yes, you are right, we do have some problems here as 99% of HOAs in the country do.

    I do not know about any letter you may have written to the board, but I can offer some observations about a couple points you made. We have less than 45 full time resident families right now. Those of us who live here love it, but remember, this subdivision was intended for recreation and weekend cabins--it was intended for those of us who want rural living but aren't "Park City" type folks. That is why the developer did not put in paved streets, central water, street lights--etc. The developers did this so we could buy lots for under $20,000.

    There are empty lots on the top of the hill that can only get to their property a few months of the year--owners didn't mind buying in becasue they just wanted to use it for summer camping. Many of those lots will never have water or be developed becasue it is not practical. When they bought in, the dues were $50 a year. Now do you think it is fair that people move into a recreational subdivision, build big expensive homes and then expect the sage brush lot on the top of the hill to pay for all the services they want full time?

    One subdivision in Sanpete has three levels of assessments. One for full time residents, one for weekend cabins, and one for empty lots. This is my preference. I choose to live here, but I do not choose to make the guy with sage brush lot pay for everything I want.

    Additionally, I sense you are upset that some members don't pay their fair share. Well, you are right, about 1/3 are always a bit behind--some chronically. A few are thousands behind. But we don't lose the money, we collect almost all of it. Once a lien is put on a piece of property it can't be sold until the lien is paid. The lots don't have feet; they are not going anywhere and neither is the money they owe the association. In addition, we earn 10% interest on all past due accounts. So think of it as a bank account--where we actually make money on those that let dues pile up!

    Every year many of these behind lots sell and we get thousands of dollars when they do. Rita Walker reported in the October meeting that they had collected on many such lots. So it rotates--we always have some behind but every year some of them pay up when the lot sells--so actually we are not losing anything, even though some will tell you we are. We make money on those that don't pay.

    In the last fiscal year 2008 to 2009 we collected over $140,000. $26,000 of that was paid toward legal fees, close to $40,000 on roads and snow. We spent only $74,000 that year and collected $114 MORE per lot than was spent! Some people were going around saying that only "15%"pay or that "2/3rds" are deadbeats--don't believe it. Look at the financials and you will see what is really going on. Most of our neighbors are paying. And the 1/3rd who are behind (most by a little--some by a lot) are paying us 10% additional.

    Hideaway is doing very well. so you are in a good place. Don't listen to rumors. Get the financial reports from the board and you'll see just how well we are doing. You can trust most of your neighbors--and Gary, we are glad to have you!

    Shelly Marshall Lots 331, 332, 333

  2. I can't find a way to respond on the other this limits so bad you can hardly express yourself.
    It all sounds well and good but who is going to determine between the full and part. Also I come up once a month during the winter to start my motorhome and check on things. Should I expect you as a full time to pay to keep those roads open? I use it as recreation right now I don't know when I'll be able to build. But some conveniance costs. Hideaway was never intended for people to just invest buy and sell and let the ones of us that use our lots pay. When you buy you know you have POA fees I could use the lower fees but at who's expense.

  3. he expensive homes Shelly refers to, do not cost any more to up keep roads or get garbage.
    The sage brush lots on the otherhand spread noxious weeds to the other properties and cost to get sprayed. You also have up keep there roads
    My lot, I've invested time and equipment and weed spray to stop that problem.
    Maybe instead we need to just stop the garbage and roadcare disband the POA and let it go.
    With even fees across the board you will avoid a discrimination law suits.
    The board before consisted of both groups now the other group is out and we have few dictating what we think.
    The roads are everyones and we upkeep for the "common good of the whole valle

  4. Gary, everyone can contribute and give their opinions. If you want to make longer comments on the comments page than the online form allows you can send an email as long as you want and if its respectful one of our team will put it up for you. If you want comments back and want to respond back again, sometimes its better to blog here about things. Send emails anytime and say what you'd like to do 9blog or just comment) and one of the team will try and help.

    Anyone can contribute to the blogs.

  5. We have an election coming up, if you don't like the board as it is now constituted, you may vote for someone else. Gary, remember the 3 trustee's we are replacing resigned. No one forced them.

    What is it that you think the current board members are doing or not doing that you feel they should? I think they are being very careful to do the minimum until there is a proper election. I think they show the desire to make sure the decisions made are done with the majority in mind. But don't take my word for it, Come to meetings and see for yourself.

    Majority will rule, force is never the American way. Have a little faith and give the current trustees a little gratitude for their tenacity and willingness to pick up the pieces under a very unorganized resignation.

  6. Gary,

    Since you are a new owner and have not seen how things run, it is understandable that a few have you so fired up. You should have been at the last member to member meeting. Rita Walker stood up for your cause and insisted that many people were censored, although when questioned directly, she admitted that she was not censored.

    Former President James W. Taufer carried your banner and insisted that you were treated unfairly because a letter reportedly penned by you was answered by Shelly Marshal rather than by the board.

    Bryan Cook has something unintelligible to say but he was defending or campaigning about something pertaining to you.

    If you are new to our little dysfunctional family there are a few things you should look around and see for yourself.

    What do your supports have in common?

    They all have new or relatively new homes.
    They claim that people are not paying their assessments (not supported by the facts)
    They spend their days planning and being grumpy about one thing or another.
    Holding planning meetings at Mr. Cooks house on how to disrupt meetings.

    Most important, they encourage you to speak out and then they get behind you, at least for now. Do they write letters of protest or did they quit when they were in positions of authority.

    Would you be surprised to know that Mr. Cook and Shelly Marshal went around to people and encouraged them to join their Grass Roots movement? Which included asking members not to pay their assessments to support a board who would not let us attend meetings?

    Would it surprise you further to know that Roy and Jim were elected by the Grass Roots group based on proxies? The Grass Roots platform, in part, was to allow members a say in important decisions.

    The proxies came from members who had no voice and all they could do is to continue to pay assessments and have little to no say in the matter? The Grass Roots members promised to change that. When Roy was president, it didn’t happen. Roy could handle it so he had Jim give it a whirl. Did they lean toward members have a say or did they handle it like it was a small club?

    Either way, unless you are planning to build a large and somewhat expensive home, watch your back. In short you are being used and as soon as you try to roll a trailer onto our lot, watch out. Ask them what they think about “drag ins”.
    According to the recent newsletter, referring to an article from the developer, Hideaway was developed for people like you. Someone who wants to build a little as they go and enjoy life. The community was never intended to be high-end residential. I know times change but there are communities all around offering different amenities. Across the highway offers all kind of things that Hideaway does not.

    Watch who your friends are and how they want you to spend your vote. If you really believe the rumors by the small and disaffected group then you will spend your days being miserable. If you use your own God given good judgment, you will see that people have the wrong agenda for what is left of this life.

    Do you really want to be saddled with never ending mortgage payments? Do you really want to try to run off all other residents in trailers and of meager means or do you want to make peace with your neighbors and enjoy your land?

    As for me, I look at what people want me to do and then I ask myself, what they are getting out of it. If you can figure out what someone is getting out of a situation they you can decide if you want to play along or stand aside. The take home message is LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP.

  7. Wow--great comments. We are a dysfunctional family.

    I just want to say one thing though, I am for paying dues and always have been. I've always encouraged people to pay their dues. When the grass roots people voted to not pay dues--it was only to not pay dues to that particular board, but they opened up a trust account and asked members to pay their dues into that. The trust account with the assessments was turned over to the board after the settlement meeting.

    I was a part of that movement--so was Bryan Cook, and all the board members who resigned as well as all the current board members. We were a large movement.

    I just wanted to say, the members of this movement never advocated keeping any money from our neighbors--but did vote to stop paying to a board that had taken away our rights.


Any one is allowed to make comments. You can use your real name and lot or an assumed name. Please be respectful of everyone, especially our trustees who donate a lot of work for us. Even if you believe they are not acting in our best interests or following our documents, stick to the facts--no name calling or innuendos and unfounded accusations. We want to set a good example for our trustees.